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Thread: St. Louis Cardinals 2016-17 Hot Stove: Cards, Adams avoid arbitration

  1. #5476

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    See above re: not gonna get fired anytime soon

    We all know in your world things would be different. Yes, yes, we do.

  2. #5477
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    Is it November or January now?

    "
    They say nothing's more American than grabbing a hotdog, heading to the ballpark
    and watching nine guys from the Dominican Republic make magic on the field."
    -- Will Ferrell, on being American

  3. #5478

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    Whom, by the way, has tied his hands?
    You don't fire managers who have done what he's done, even if we all know the guy will never get us to the promised land short of a roster with overwhelming talent.

    Well, most people know that. You don't see to recognize it, but you don't recognize a lot of things, so.....pine away!

  4. #5479

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    I guess I don't get what you are saying

    If Mo knows Matheny sucks, who is stopping him from making a change?
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  5. #5480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    I guess I don't get what you are saying

    If Mo knows Matheny sucks, who is stopping him from making a change?
    What he's saying is he doesn't give a shit...

    "
    They say nothing's more American than grabbing a hotdog, heading to the ballpark
    and watching nine guys from the Dominican Republic make magic on the field."
    -- Will Ferrell, on being American

  6. #5481

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Is it November or January now?
    The past is always the present in Lazyworld!

    If he were a Democrat, he'd still be bitching that Al Gore isn't president.

  7. #5482

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie Cleveland View Post
    You don't fire managers who have done what he's done, even if we all know the guy will never get us to the promised land short of a roster with overwhelming talent.

    Well, most people know that. You don't see to recognize it, but you don't recognize a lot of things, so.....pine away!
    Ok, don't fire him. Shoulda just let his first contract run out. Or his second one.
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  8. #5483

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    I guess I don't get what you are saying

    If Mo knows Matheny sucks, who is stopping him from making a change?
    Real life?

  9. #5484

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    What he's saying is he doesn't give a shit...
    so glad you're back. Still bringing the insight.
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  10. #5485

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie Cleveland View Post
    Real life?

    That's throwing good money at bad. That's not real life. That's your PC poker app
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  11. #5486

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie Cleveland View Post
    You don't fire managers who have done what he's done, even if we all know the guy will never get us to the promised land short of a roster with overwhelming talent.

    Well, most people know that. You don't see to recognize it, but you don't recognize a lot of things, so.....pine away!
    I don't really agree with this either. I realize that Mo's not going to do it, but it's not going to be for a good reason. MM absolutely can and should be replaced. Either Mo is being blindly ignorant about the need to replace him (not likely), or he's taking the coward's way out.
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  12. #5487

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    That's throwing good money at bad. That's not real life. That's your PC poker app
    Playoffs first four years, barely missed them in year five (and yes, he's the main reason they missed them).

    In real life, people like that don't get fired. They get promoted.

    Which you know.

    We're stuck with him for at least one more year. There's no point in talking about it. None.

    SO LET ME STOP TALKING ABOUT IT!

  13. #5488

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtVandalay View Post
    I don't really agree with this either. I realize that Mo's not going to do it, but it's not going to be for a good reason. MM absolutely can and should be replaced. Either Mo is being blindly ignorant about the need to replace him (not likely), or he's taking the coward's way out.
    Mo strikes you as a coward?

    Mo presumably has concluded, sensibly, that the price of getting rid of him would outweigh the pains of keeping him. You just don't fire people the first time they fail at something. As you yourself have said, he's going to need to do a lot more tanking than this to get the axe.

    It is what it is. We're stuck with him at least one more year, and surely more than that.

  14. #5489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    so glad you're back. Still bringing the insight.
    Since I'm not interested in talking in circles, I figured I should just mock you...

    "
    They say nothing's more American than grabbing a hotdog, heading to the ballpark
    and watching nine guys from the Dominican Republic make magic on the field."
    -- Will Ferrell, on being American

  15. #5490

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    What is the price of getting rid if him?
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  16. #5491

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Since I'm not interested in talking in circles, I figured I should just mock you...
    You know, baseball talk isn't a zero sum game.

    You should really stop trying to always hedge so you claim you were "right"
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  17. #5492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    You know, baseball talk isn't a zero sum game.

    You should really stop trying to always hedge so you claim you were "right"
    It's only because I pay attention...

    "
    They say nothing's more American than grabbing a hotdog, heading to the ballpark
    and watching nine guys from the Dominican Republic make magic on the field."
    -- Will Ferrell, on being American

  18. #5493

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    What is the price of getting rid if him?
    What message does that send?

    Would you want to work for a company that fires you the first time you don't make President's Club? Would anyone?

    Let's turn this around. Why don't you tell me why astute Mo doesn't get rid of him? Draw us a picture.

  19. #5494

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie Cleveland View Post
    Mo strikes you as a coward?

    Mo presumably has concluded, sensibly, that the price of getting rid of him would outweigh the pains of keeping him. You just don't fire people the first time they fail at something. As you yourself have said, he's going to need to do a lot more tanking than this to get the axe.

    It is what it is. We're stuck with him at least one more year, and surely more than that.
    In this he is absolutely acting as a coward. He has to know that MM should not be the manager of the team, but if he does get rid of him then he opens himself up to criticism from morons who can't look past the team's success during MM's tenure to realize that he is a buffoon who has no business running a pizza hut, much less a major league baseball team. If he keeps him on then he mostly insulates himself from criticism, because as you point out- people in MM's situation are almost never fired, whether they deserve to be or not.

    The price of getting rid of him? What price are we talking about here? It's not like the players are huge fans of him, apparently, and before they extended him they wouldn't have even had to buy him out of a long contract. Don't know why you included the line about firing someone for their first time failing at something, as it isn't even remotely applicable to the discussion at hand.
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  20. #5495

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie Cleveland View Post
    What message does that send?

    Would you want to work for a company that fires you the first time you don't make President's Club? Would anyone?

    Let's turn this around. Why don't you tell me why astute Mo doesn't get rid of him? Draw us a picture.
    You're not firing him for not making the playoffs last year. You're firing him because he's an idiot who doesn't know how to manage a baseball team. The first part is just a symptom of the actual reason he should be fired.
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  21. #5496

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie Cleveland View Post
    What message does that send?

    Would you want to work for a company that fires you the first time you don't make President's Club? Would anyone?

    Let's turn this around. Why don't you tell me why astute Mo doesn't get rid of him? Draw us a picture.
    A) the message is that if you are a fucking idiot, and everyone knows you are a fucking idiot, and you have probably had more of a negative influence than a positive one, and almost every pone in baseball realizes that, then you won't keep a job with a storied, successful franchise.

    B) i don't know. That's why I asked. DeWitt making him? Trying to prove he wasn't wrong in the first place? A pussy?
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  22. #5497

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    Ah....life is always so clear from a perch on a message board.

  23. #5498
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    If this team is floundering below.500 around Memorial Day, then pull the plug on MM.
    "Remember, remember, the Eight of November, 2016"

    Not My President!

  24. #5499

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie Cleveland View Post
    Ah....life is always so clear from a perch on a message board.

    ??? You've admitted it's clear to everyone

    in this interaction today.
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  25. #5500

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    A) the message is that if you are a fucking idiot, and everyone knows you are a fucking idiot, and you have probably had more of a negative influence than a positive one, and almost every pone in baseball realizes that, then you won't keep a job with a storied, successful franchise.

    B) i don't know. That's why I asked. DeWitt making him? Trying to prove he wasn't wrong in the first place? A pussy?
    I don't think it's really all that complicated. He's keeping him for the same reason that teams punt on 4th and inches on their opponent's half of the field or kick the field goal on 4th and goal on the 1 yard line in the first quarter. One decision is safe and won't get them criticized because it's just what is expected (even if it's the wrong decision), while the other decision will get them criticized if it fails because it goes against conventional wisdom.
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